Ben: It is, and it’s part of what inspired an incredibly in-depth Reddit post about the Hillsong church that went viral. Ben: You're talking about being at this service with Carl Lentz, the New York City pastor. Hillsong Network. Here he is on 60 Minutes Australia: Brett Sengstock (from video): I could not speak, I couldn't scream, I couldn't push back, and I couldn't breathe. Kiki: You'll notice if you read Selena Gomez profiles about faith, she doesn't really mention Hillsong. What Brian Houston did that was really smart was that he combined, you know, typical megachurch preaching with a wildly popular music ministry. Two of these guys I didn’t recognize and one I’m not too too old to recognize: Justin Bieber. So there’s a lot of people investing in different things. But at the same time that sounded totally plausible to me. Amory: The church has been criticized by other Christians for putting moneymaking schemes over substance and by people who are generally skeptical of organized religion for, you know, building a culture around literal interpretations of the Bible, for separating people from their money, and for the past sex scandals that you were talking about. Ukraine Eventually, he made it to Australia and started a family in the 1970s. Brazil The international Women's Hillsong meet went ahead at the Hillsong Convention Centre in Baulkham Hills, in Sydney's north-west, on Saturday. The post title in full was, “God is a Capitalist: An introduction to Hillsong, the Evangelical Christian Church Running Pop.”. Amory, say it with me... Amory: I’m Amory Sivertson, and you’re listening to Endless Thread. Ben: We didn’t really know much about Hillsong until we found a Reddit post with a title that is also the title of today’s episode. Amory: AHA came forward and identified himself last year for the first time as Brett Sengstock. I mean, religion isn't fun. And that's how you get the kids. It is carefully constructed. Mexico Colour Sisterhood Ben: Kiki, who is one of those millennials, finds the church’s stance on the LGBTQ community particularly uncool. They opened in Brisbane’s CBD in April and were founded in Australia in 1983. Hillsong Church Brian Houston TV ABC Reporter: If a gay couple came to Hillsong, would you want them to change? This content was originally created for audio. Ben: You've been to a Hillsong service, right? Amory: Kiki put her palms together, raised those prayer-like hands above her head and dove in to Hillsong’s history, which actually goes back decades. Ben: This has become a problem for people who have benefitted from Hillsong’s support. But then you'll see like a string of correct predictions and then you're like, “Oh shit, this is an insider.”. And the post was written by a woman named Kiki. Hillsong’s like fast food for your religious needs and I don't think it's going anywhere. Sam grew up in Hillsong Church and has been on staff for 10 years. Racism must stop, and my prayer is that this moment in history will be a moment of lasting equality, transformation and change. Hillsong is an Australian megachurch famous for its hipster vibe, multi-platinum house band, and connections to celebrities like Justin Bieber, Chris Pratt, and Kevin Durant. Their latest album debuted at #2 on the Billboard Top 200 and they performed live on ABC’s Good Morning America. And they, in the 80s, went off and started their own church and they called it Hills Christian Life Center. He is excited to use his gifts at Grace Point West to walk out one of his biggest passions: to invest in and minister to the younger generation. Hillsong Pastor Carl Lentz pushed back against that comparison in a 2017 interview with Vice: Carl Lentz: It’s apples and oranges because Scientology is so out there. Search the world's information, including webpages, images, videos and more. We are real people, in pursuit of a real God, who has real answers. Sebastian wasn’t a Hillsong parishioner, he was a member of another Pentecostal church that would eventually be subsumed by Hillsong as a quote, “Hillsong Family Church.”. But you know for anybody who's willing to do the homework, it doesn't take that long to see that underneath it, there's a problematic ideology or is ultraconservative and just, you have to be upfront about that. I’m 8 too. Ben: We’re going to get to all of that in a minute. You are welcome to sit in the pews. Pretty genius. Ben: The show featuring stories found in the vast ecosystem of online communities called Reddit. Championing the cause of local churches everywhere. The connection between the two churches is tenuous at best, but the attention has compelled Hillsong to release its newest statement clarifying its position. Amory: Beliefs that feel incongruous with leather-jacket-donning hipster pastors. Judah Smith (in video): I wanna be part of a church where everybody gets a fair shake at using their gift to contribute to the community. Ben: After initially being excited by the support, Sebastian said that he couldn’t get behind the way the church treated people who were gay. “We know that Hillsong East Coast has failed to be the kind of church it should be,” Houston, 67, wrote in an internal email addressed “Dear Church,” which The Post obtained. Ben: Here’s Hillsong United on Good Morning America again performing the big single, “Good Grace.”. This would include celebrities. This needs to f---ing stop. But suffice it to say, some of Hillsong’s money-making prowess comes from its connection to celebrities. Good Morning America: We are excited about this one. They’re kind of bro-ing around, dressed very casually. They promote next year’s big conference. Ben: Yep. They're like royalty. Brandy: Hillsong would have, to my church, been seen as unbiblical. And I think that appeals to all people not just celebrities. And that really is only because of the music and maybe the celebrity chasing that would be seen as worldly, secular. And I think that they are packaging it smarter than anybody else is doing. Ben: Can you tell us about Hillsong’s emphasis on prosperity and making money? The surroundings are super modern, the lighting is super night-club-ish. They are fun, dynamic and passionate about Jesus and community. And that can never change. Brian Houston: I can’t unwrite the bible. West Point Junior High 2012 partner dance - Duration: 5:45. jen0187ryan 2,215 views Correction: In the original version of this story, we said Justin Bieber led worship at a Hillsong church. Brandy: Yeah. Curly hair. I was petrified. Kiki: And often these accounts will kind of pop up out of nowhere and they'll have no followers. West Point Writing Program. Amory: After the performance, captured by TMZ, Pastor Judah Smith explained Bieber’s participation like this. He took out a pension until the day he died and he got to die without ever having publicly atoned for the sins that he allegedly made against these boys. And that business is incredibly lucrative! Brandy: My pleasure. Russia In the middle of November 2019, as Australia burns with biblical infernos, a couple of thousand Pentecostal men are assembling in the southern suburbs of Brisbane to reach for salvation from loneliness and sin. And then Brian Houston merged his father's church with his own. The transcript has been edited from our original script for clarity. Amory: But Sebastian got a taste of Hillsong’s growing influence via Australian Idol’s online voting. Justin Bieber (in video): I just enjoy seeing people worship, praising God. . 1:00 AM: Enjoying Everyday Life with Joyce Meyer Author and Bible teacher Joyce Meyer shares encouragement to help people enjoy daily life. Steve West is more blunt about where Hillsong's appeal lies: "Moral certainty, community, a sense of identity. Kiki: They say they're “gay accepting,” but not “gay affirming” and they say being gay is a lifestyle. Or maybe it was just a snack, I don't know. But this church was started in Australia by this guy named Frank Houston in the 1970s and he had a son named Brian Houston who married a woman named Bobbie Houston. And as a non-straight person, to kind of phrase it like that, like, “We'll let gay people into our church but we're not going to like make them feel that it's OK to be gay,” that was really problematic to me. But, you know what happened was that Frank was allowed to quietly resign. But that’s what you take away, and so of course their numbers are increasing. Worship & Creative Conference Part of this came out in a Royal Commission report in Australia in 2015. Ben: That is Scott Morrison, the new Prime Minister of Australia, speaking to 21,000 Hillsong believers in Sydney at the opening of this year’s conference. So if you believe in Jesus he's going to reward you here on Earth. Kiki’s obsession with pop music comes through again here, with a comment another celebrity made about Justin Bieber. Most notable was the session from “The Catholic guy” Bruce Downs, who has used Hillsong’s resource to revitalize the Catholic church in Perth, on Australia’s West Coast. The post was 4,352 words long. NEW ALBUM "BECAUSE HE LIVES" IS NOW AVAILABLE ON Apple Music, SPOTIFY, AND MORE! But that's not a very marketable lesson. We have opportunities throughout our church so you can find a place and role to fit your specific gifts, talents and interests. But the less famous guys rolling around on the couch here are not part of Justin’s entourage, they’re not pop stars. And Justin Bieber’s kind of sandwiched in the middle, answering the interviewer’s softball questions about what he liked best about the youth part of the Hillsong conference. He led worship at Churchome, a "Hillsong Family" church. Their first live worship CD The Power of Your Love was released in 1992. Just think it through the day. And Justin Bieber's representative denied that. Oh and Jesus. Amory: Youth-focused Christian megachurches that try to show how cool they are, are not new. Because it’s a church, Hillsong as an organization doesn’t have to abide by the same rules of taxation and financial disclosure as other businesses. Ben: Even if the celebrities aren’t saying Hillsong all over their Instagram accounts, the fans make the connection, which is, in part, because the celebrity-focused media just fills in the blanks without the church having to ask. Stories, thoughts and articles about what Amory: But, along with its history of financial growth, along with its cachet of coolness and celebrity participation, along with its promises to followers that it will help them reach prosperity and positivity, Hillsong has a darker history. Academic Leadership. Another on-point article by fellow polemicist and good friend Marsha West: “The tragedy that evangelicals have lost the art of biblical discernment must be traced to a disastrous loss of biblical knowledge. It is in this context that Hillsong Music was founded in 1991. I don't think that they’re, and this is just my personal opinion, so I think that these are, they seem like nice folks and they are running a family business. Curriculum. So we called one up. And that made me go, “Wait. They’re one of my favorite groups... Ben: The Hillsong church has been described as a money making machine, pulling in millions upon millions of dollars from around the world. Especially for a religion like this that is so authoritative, it's always helpful to put a rocking beat to it. Discernment cannot survive without doctrine.” What exactly is discernment? Brandy: So he told his mother about this in the 70s and, you know, she said don't challenge the church leaders. Brian Houston: The short answer is, I think all of us need to be changing. Amory: Hillsong might feel like a brand new church, stylistically and in terms of visibility. Media outlets like ABC News have developed a favorite phrase... ABC News: And the pastor is a hipster heartthrob…, Kiki: You can pull up their Instagrams. She was calling out actor Chris Pratt, who has attended Hillsong services. Amory: You just have to project that these celebrities are having a good time with that product or idea, so you might too. Brandy: Oh absolutely. But having a stance like that is not cool. So this to me this looks a little bit like backstage at a tech conference or something. I was at the afternoon service. Amory: It’s hard to calculate an exact dollar amount, but the latest album we mentioned, the one that debuted at #2 on the Billboard Top 200 charts, sold more than 100,000 units in its first week and was the top-selling album in the US across all genres. So again, a basis for the religion is hell, is punishment for sins. Global Senior Pastors of Hillsong Church. They’re like, you’re the guy so if we can get you indoctrinated quick enough we’re gonna make you the spokesman. And they believe, and they preach openly and actively that being gay is a sin. This really brings up questions on how resource is being used in the church – a good question for the church at this point … Apps I mean, nobody wants to go and read from a Bible that says fire and brimstone and terror. History. Amory: Yeah. Good looking How old are you son? With him on my side, I'm fearless, all caps, afraid of no one and nothing. Like what are we looking at? A lot of this played out on Twitter, but Page also made comments about Hillsong’s treatment of gay people on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert: Ellen Page: I’m lucky to have the time and the privilege to say this. Hillsong is an Australian megachurch famous for its hipster vibe, multi-platinum house band, and connections to celebrities like Justin Bieber, Chris Pratt, and Kevin Durant. Ben: I'm looking at Selena Gomez’s Instagram account right now. Brandy: I have no idea. The leader of megachurch Hillsong has apologized — but will congregants forgive him? Brett: You know, "you're my golden boy and you're special to me," and all these sort of things, which as an adult now I look back and it makes me want to vomit. The West Point community celebrated Spiritual Warrior Week Feb. 19-24 with 16 events across multiple religions. And it says light, space, zest. So they have always said that if you are gay, you are welcome in Hillsong Church. I mean, he’s not the Biebs, but Morrison does plan to introduce national legislation that further protects Hillsong and other churches from interference by the government. music, sound effects, tone) are harder to translate to text. Ben: And what is weird to me, or a little weird, is that both of these guys being interviewed, when I first saw them, I thought they were just part of Bieber’s entourage, these guys on either side of him. Ben: One that involves pedophilia, and a history of homophobia and religious conservatism that might surprise the people getting drawn to Hillsong. Ben: The kicker in your story for The Daily Beast is good. I’m a third year law student. 1:30 AM: Andre : 2:00 AM: Hillsong Church Special Guests Friends of Hillsong share messages of faith. It was Sunday so a lot of people seemed, like, mildly hungover. The needless and tragic death of George Floyd in Minneapolis, and the much deeper systemic issues towards African American people that his death has highlighted, must lead to radical and permanent change. Those are my favorite parts. Revealing the truth of who Jesus is and inspiring us to be used by God. And you really do feel like it's a second family. Amory: For the very first time, Justin Bieber moved from the backstage couch in 2017 to lead worship for the first time at Churchome, a "Hillsong Family" church. The Beebs. Here’s a CBS This Morning report from 2014. Kiki: I'm an American. Jesus is doing in our world, and how we outwork that Ben: Gotta spend money to make money, right? And that is true. One of Hillsong’s biggest churches is in Mt Gravatt, where they have a congregation of 6000. Italy You really do have to take a seat sort of at the back of the bus in order to worship there. I think it's totally possible that they are pure hearted and believe this. I passed the church where Hillsong has their [service.] I do every Sunday. They’re pastors of the Hillsong church. Ben: Do you feel like the music part of it was almost a platform for the church itself to grow? Amory: The website Church Watch Central, has a post detailing the allegations against Frank Houston paired with audio of a sermon he supposedly gave in 2004. to all that’s happening at Hillsong around the globe! I mean, I know that religion will always be with us we'll always need a reason to explain why things happen or something to believe in. Sweden Partly because the church has been associated with a bunch of celebrities, from Chris Pratt to Kylie and Kendall Jenner, Bono, NBA stars Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. Carl Lentz from New York City. Our only and burning passion is to build the church and the kingdom of God on earth, and see the people of our day-to-day being freed to fulfil their purpose and calling. Members of the church started supporting him because he identified himself as a Christian and a virgin. He says, you know, for all the people already talking about next year, for considering whether or not they want to pay their way into Hillsong’s 2018 conference…. That’s a big promise. Library. Are you a “Belieber?”. Amory: Invest in the Hillsong conference, and your return on investment, will be supernatural. We are back now with one of the biggest Christian bands in the world, Hillsong United. The venue has a capacity of 3,300. Brandy: And that's a literal reading of the text, in that the Bible is the literal word of God. Brandy: Sure. Amory: And this is a problem for people like Kiki who think that this cool church vibe belies Hillsong’s real belief structure and its history with sexual assault. France 8. Switzerland Brandy: I don't know actually, but I think it was like a communion thing. You know, a bunch of leather-clad parishioners and ushers waved you in with a hearty, “Welcome to church!” And there were goldfish crackers and, you know, this is the best part of church, is the people in it. He publicly parted ways. 362 likes. So it doesn't come across as like a lot of proselytizing. I mean I think Hillsong has weathered every possible storm of criticism. He built up his preaching skill set, started a church, started finding some success. Ben Brock Johnson: Amory, we both know why we’re here...to do our jobs. Ben: And as Sydney, Australia has become more of a globally recognized metropolis, the Houston’s family church has also grown. Brandy: So I was personally interested in Hillsong. Heads up that some elements (i.e. Disgraced Hillsong pastor Carl Lentz was spotted spending some time alone in Southern California ahead of the weekend, weeks after spending the holidays away from his family in rehab.. This post was on the pop heads subreddit, where people nerd out about pop music. Alive with biblical truth made relevant to kids through song. Her Reddit post is heavily researched, with footnotes, links, separate sections on the church's beliefs, music, fundraising, scandals. There’s someone interviewing them. And an estimated 50 million people sing their songs in church every Sunday. And all of you are here for it. Ben: Do you think that the goldfish thing was a play on Jesus Fish? Hillsong Conference Lt. Col. Christopher Ophardt, spokesman for the academy at West Point, Whoever you are … Hillsong church founder Brian Houston claimed that fired celebrity pastor Carl Lentz actually had "more than one" extramarital affair, according to an audio recording obtained by Page Six. Save Ben: What Kiki found was a church that in recent years seems to have been riding a tsunami of success and influence, with no small amount of help from celebrities and pop stars. By the late 90s those allegations had come to Brian himself. Or like backstage at Coachella. The youth movement of Hillsong Church, captured through music. 10 million people follow Hillsong on social media, including Justin Bieber. And this is in the 60s and the 70s. And I was like, "What is this? Amory: The reason that this figure sounds plausible to Kiki is that Hillsong engages in tithing, asking parishioners to donate 10 percent of their income to the church. But the church has basically maintained this idea that they're growing their flock in an era when Christianity itself is struggling, you know, when church’s attendance is down. The story goes like this, Hillsong’s grandfather of sorts was a man named Frank Houston. And since Amory and I are not necessarily any of Bieber’s “Beliebers,” are we, Amory? – Pastor Brian Houston. He knew Tyson lived in a fancy Upper West Side building with a pool. Norway Here's a few samples: Frank Houston: What a fantastic young fella he is. Brandy Zadrozny: My name's Brandy Zadrozny. They could have at this point and people are flocking to it. Brian Houston defends Hillsong church after campus is given a Covid health alert Sat 02 Jan 2021 by Cara Bentley The Australian health service in the state of New South Wales, where the megachurch Hillsong is based, has issued a Covid alert to anyone who visited the campus for 45 minutes on Tuesday. Ben: Kiki made this point too. Department of Physical Education. I grew up as a Southern Baptist, which has a very restrictive evangelical religion and it has a lot in common with Hillsong. Strategically placed within the life of our local church in Sydney, Hillsong College allows you to apply the skills you will learn in a practical ministry setting so that you can lead and impact in your world. But in recent years, Hillsong’s been getting a lot of attention. through our local churches. Championing the cause of localchurches everywhere. Brandy: You know, when Hillsong was first started it wasn't known as Hillsong. Again, these are my people. We believe in people – we believe in their potential and also in their incredible ability to influence the world with good. Course Catalog. Netherlands Here’s Hillsong founder and senior pastor Brian Houston talking to ABC. Media Kiki: I really like puns. Amory: Here in the US earlier this year, actor Ellen Page called for another person to do the same, for similar reasons. Connecting technology with the everyday needs of the local church, About It's literally on the West End of London, which is like the Broadway of London. But that was very telling to me and that was almost like, revealing themselves! The Corps THE CORPS The Corps Leadership. Discernment cannot survive without doctrine.” What exactly is discernment? Kiki: Supposedly Post Malone, who’s a rapper...rapper’s a strong word for him...a hit maker. People like Guy Sebastian, the 2003 winner of Australian Idol.